Discussion Notes and Future Topics
I had a great time with everyone on Friday night last week. We covered a lot of ground with I.D. (Intelligent Design) and talking about how we can drive a wedge into the current beliefs about God for the sake of the gospel. The important thing to remember is that all of these topics become meaningless if we don't speak them in conjunction with the gospel. What is helpful about an idea like I.D. is that is points people, objectively, to the reality of a Creator God. Once we see that there is a Creator God, we can move to talking about God's standards, His desires for His creatures, and what He demands in order to secure their eternal salvation.
I enjoyed our time singing together. Some of those songs really capture well the ideas of creation and all of God's works praising His Name. I particularly enjoyed Wonderful Maker and God of Wonders.
Our discussion centered around a few key ideas of I.D. as well as some of the flaws of Darwinian Evolution. You can read more about Irreducible Complexity in the previous post. We came down the basic conclusion that everything is so complex, right down to our tiny cells, that the chances that this all occurred randomly are too great to even be possible. I think the exact number was 1 in a trillion, trillion, trillion chance (1-1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000) that even one cell could have formed correctly, much less multiple cells, and that only happens after life has begun on its own on earth, which still has yet to be proven or duplicated.
Praise God for giving us such a picture of the intricacy with which He created all things.
Next time, we'll be discussing the Bible and how we can know if it is what it says it is, without error and inspired by God. I would recommend reading Wayne Grudem's Systematic Theology or Bible Doctrine book under the section of Bibliology. Happy reading and studying and I'll see you at the next Bonfire on May 30 at the Mission's House.
Tuesday, May 06, 2008
Tuesday, April 29, 2008
The Key to I.D.
As Intelligent Design is thrown into the spotlight by our bonfire, I think it would be good for us to know what the key argument of Intelligent Design is. It's technical term is the Rule of Irreducible Complexity. In layman's terms, this basically means that organisms or machines need to have a certain number of working parts that work together for it to be considered an organism or machine. Michale Behe defines it as: "A single system that is composed of several interacting parts, where the removal of any one of the parts causes the system to cease functioning." He uses the example of a moustrap: "The mousetraps that my family uses consist of a number of parts. There are: (1) a flat wooden platform to act as a base; (2) a metal hammer, which does the actual job of crushing the little mouse; (3) a spring with extended ends to press against the platform and the hammer when the trap is charged; (4) a sensitive catch that releases when slight pressure is applied; (5) and a metal bar that connects to the catch an holds the hammer back when the trap is charged. Now, you can't catch a mouse with just a platform, add a spring and catch a few more mice, add a holding bar and catch a few more. All the pieces of the mousetrap have to be in place before you catch any mice. Therefore, the mousetrap is irreducibly complex."
What does this look like in nature? Consider the evolutionary explanation of how we got thumbs. An animal, several mutations away from a fully developed human, doesn't have any thumbs, only regular fingers, much like a dogs paw. Suddenly, there is a mutation, and the skin to hold a thumb appears on a hand. After that mutation, is passed on through the generations, a bone appears. After that mutation, cartilage, then knuckles, then tendons, etc. This process, although taking a long time, eventually leaves us with a fully functional opposable thumb. Now this sounds great, but there a lot of holes in the idea, some of them coming from Darwin himself.
Natural selection, the idea that the strong survive because they are more able to cope with their environment, makes mutation difficult. To look at the thumb example, the species begins to develop an opposable thumb will be hindered by its development until it is fully functional. They will be hindered in finding a mate, in gathering food, in defending themselves, etc. According to natural selection, this would classify the animal as injured or defective, and they would usually die off before they were even able to pass on this gene to another generation. Imagine if a worm were to begin to develop an eye. Each step in the process, whether it is having an eye socket, extra nerves run to the eye, developing the unique tissues that make up the eye, or even being able to actually see and process what you are seeing, would be a hindrance to the day to day activities of the worm. These changes, unless they all came at once, would cause the worms death rather than give it a better chance at life.
Now consider something infinitely more complex, the human body. There are so many pieces that make us what we are. What I.D. argues is that this could not have happened by coincidences strung together that happen to give us a cell, then more cells, than an organism, then animals, etc. The idea of irreducible complexity is that all of the pieces had to be there, fully functioning, at the same time in order for it to work and to be passed on to the next generation. This is an argument that Darwinian Evolution has no answer to.
I hope you find this information helpful as you prepare for our Bonfire on Friday night. See you there.
-Michael Behe: from "Signs of Intelligence- Darwin's Breakdown: Irreducible Complexity and Design at the Foundation of Life" pg. 93-94
As Intelligent Design is thrown into the spotlight by our bonfire, I think it would be good for us to know what the key argument of Intelligent Design is. It's technical term is the Rule of Irreducible Complexity. In layman's terms, this basically means that organisms or machines need to have a certain number of working parts that work together for it to be considered an organism or machine. Michale Behe defines it as: "A single system that is composed of several interacting parts, where the removal of any one of the parts causes the system to cease functioning." He uses the example of a moustrap: "The mousetraps that my family uses consist of a number of parts. There are: (1) a flat wooden platform to act as a base; (2) a metal hammer, which does the actual job of crushing the little mouse; (3) a spring with extended ends to press against the platform and the hammer when the trap is charged; (4) a sensitive catch that releases when slight pressure is applied; (5) and a metal bar that connects to the catch an holds the hammer back when the trap is charged. Now, you can't catch a mouse with just a platform, add a spring and catch a few more mice, add a holding bar and catch a few more. All the pieces of the mousetrap have to be in place before you catch any mice. Therefore, the mousetrap is irreducibly complex."
What does this look like in nature? Consider the evolutionary explanation of how we got thumbs. An animal, several mutations away from a fully developed human, doesn't have any thumbs, only regular fingers, much like a dogs paw. Suddenly, there is a mutation, and the skin to hold a thumb appears on a hand. After that mutation, is passed on through the generations, a bone appears. After that mutation, cartilage, then knuckles, then tendons, etc. This process, although taking a long time, eventually leaves us with a fully functional opposable thumb. Now this sounds great, but there a lot of holes in the idea, some of them coming from Darwin himself.
Natural selection, the idea that the strong survive because they are more able to cope with their environment, makes mutation difficult. To look at the thumb example, the species begins to develop an opposable thumb will be hindered by its development until it is fully functional. They will be hindered in finding a mate, in gathering food, in defending themselves, etc. According to natural selection, this would classify the animal as injured or defective, and they would usually die off before they were even able to pass on this gene to another generation. Imagine if a worm were to begin to develop an eye. Each step in the process, whether it is having an eye socket, extra nerves run to the eye, developing the unique tissues that make up the eye, or even being able to actually see and process what you are seeing, would be a hindrance to the day to day activities of the worm. These changes, unless they all came at once, would cause the worms death rather than give it a better chance at life.
Now consider something infinitely more complex, the human body. There are so many pieces that make us what we are. What I.D. argues is that this could not have happened by coincidences strung together that happen to give us a cell, then more cells, than an organism, then animals, etc. The idea of irreducible complexity is that all of the pieces had to be there, fully functioning, at the same time in order for it to work and to be passed on to the next generation. This is an argument that Darwinian Evolution has no answer to.
I hope you find this information helpful as you prepare for our Bonfire on Friday night. See you there.
-Michael Behe: from "Signs of Intelligence- Darwin's Breakdown: Irreducible Complexity and Design at the Foundation of Life" pg. 93-94
Tuesday, April 01, 2008
Reflections on Friday Night
First of all, thank you to everyone who came and participated in a great evening together. As we thought through what Bonfires would be about, we wanted to focus on being together for a profitable time of singing, prayer, and discussion centered around God's Word. I believe we accomplished our goal. Here is what happened in case you missed it:
Singing:
I think the song that spoke to most of us was "In Christ Alone". This song has such a rich text that almost every line carries a theological weight, and a joy as well. Many students and leaders commented on various lines, referencing God's sovereignty, the freedom we have from sin, the finality of Christ's sacrifice, and the great joy we now have being chosen by God. I was very encouraged by our time singing together.
Discussion:
Our discussion centered around the issue of homosexuality and what the Bible has to say about it. At the beginning of our talk, we spoke about some key scripture verses that speak to the husband wife relationship and that speak against a homosexual relationship. I've already posted those passages in the previous post. Our time really got interesting when we began talking about how you would reason with someone who doesn't believe in the Bible. I played the devil's advocate and showed just how hard it is to reason with someone who won't listen to scripture or even to common sense. Things that are obvious to a believer, like looking at creation or even seeing the need for both genders in procreation, are overshadowed in a non-believers mind by their own sense of right and wrong which is still saturated in Christ-less sin.
We concluded that if you are in a discussion with someone who won't change their mind, no matter what you say, it is a fruitless discussion. This means that we need to sharpen our reasoning skills to understand when it is pointless to debate something. Also, even if we do with the debate about homosexuality or evolution or abortion, the person is still going to hell if they don't understand the gospel. That is why it is so important to not get side-tracked and to bring every conversation down to the level of "What is Truth". Here's what I mean.
To know what a person really believes, you have to first understand where they believe truth comes from. If they believe that the true standard of right and wrong comes from within themselves, then there really is no standard and we can do whatever we want. You can confront that person with a statement like, "Why is murder wrong? Perhaps it is wrong for you, but what about someone else who is okay with killing others? If truth lies within each of us, then everyone should be allowed to do whatever they want with no consequences." The absurdity of that statement should be apparent to anyone who is speaking reasonably with you.
Once you establish that there has to be some kind of truth outside of ourselves that gave us a sense of what is really right and wrong, you can move to talking about who or what gave us that truth. It must've come from somewhere. We know that that somewhere is God. Now you are talking about something that matters for eternity; the eternal God who loves us and sent His Son to die for sinners. Remember to move your conversations in that direction as much as possible.
I would love to read your feedback on our discussion. Feel free to ask more questions, make suggestions, or just leave a comment. See you at the next bonfire.
First of all, thank you to everyone who came and participated in a great evening together. As we thought through what Bonfires would be about, we wanted to focus on being together for a profitable time of singing, prayer, and discussion centered around God's Word. I believe we accomplished our goal. Here is what happened in case you missed it:
Singing:
I think the song that spoke to most of us was "In Christ Alone". This song has such a rich text that almost every line carries a theological weight, and a joy as well. Many students and leaders commented on various lines, referencing God's sovereignty, the freedom we have from sin, the finality of Christ's sacrifice, and the great joy we now have being chosen by God. I was very encouraged by our time singing together.
Discussion:
Our discussion centered around the issue of homosexuality and what the Bible has to say about it. At the beginning of our talk, we spoke about some key scripture verses that speak to the husband wife relationship and that speak against a homosexual relationship. I've already posted those passages in the previous post. Our time really got interesting when we began talking about how you would reason with someone who doesn't believe in the Bible. I played the devil's advocate and showed just how hard it is to reason with someone who won't listen to scripture or even to common sense. Things that are obvious to a believer, like looking at creation or even seeing the need for both genders in procreation, are overshadowed in a non-believers mind by their own sense of right and wrong which is still saturated in Christ-less sin.
We concluded that if you are in a discussion with someone who won't change their mind, no matter what you say, it is a fruitless discussion. This means that we need to sharpen our reasoning skills to understand when it is pointless to debate something. Also, even if we do with the debate about homosexuality or evolution or abortion, the person is still going to hell if they don't understand the gospel. That is why it is so important to not get side-tracked and to bring every conversation down to the level of "What is Truth". Here's what I mean.
To know what a person really believes, you have to first understand where they believe truth comes from. If they believe that the true standard of right and wrong comes from within themselves, then there really is no standard and we can do whatever we want. You can confront that person with a statement like, "Why is murder wrong? Perhaps it is wrong for you, but what about someone else who is okay with killing others? If truth lies within each of us, then everyone should be allowed to do whatever they want with no consequences." The absurdity of that statement should be apparent to anyone who is speaking reasonably with you.
Once you establish that there has to be some kind of truth outside of ourselves that gave us a sense of what is really right and wrong, you can move to talking about who or what gave us that truth. It must've come from somewhere. We know that that somewhere is God. Now you are talking about something that matters for eternity; the eternal God who loves us and sent His Son to die for sinners. Remember to move your conversations in that direction as much as possible.
I would love to read your feedback on our discussion. Feel free to ask more questions, make suggestions, or just leave a comment. See you at the next bonfire.
Friday, March 28, 2008
Before We Meet
Here are my scripture references for our discussion. I'll post the results of the evening over the weekend. I hope you find them helpful.
References opposing Homosexuality:
Lev 18:22; Lev 20:13; Romans 1:24-32; 1 Cor 6:9-11;1 Tim 1:8-11;
References supporting Heterosexuality:
Here are my scripture references for our discussion. I'll post the results of the evening over the weekend. I hope you find them helpful.
References opposing Homosexuality:
Lev 18:22; Lev 20:13; Romans 1:24-32; 1 Cor 6:9-11;1 Tim 1:8-11;
References supporting Heterosexuality:
Gen. 2:24; 1 Tim 3:2; Matt 19:4-6; Eph 5:22-33;
This is also modeled in how God created Adam and Eve (Not Adam and Steve)
Tuesday, March 04, 2008
The Bonfires Have Begun
Thank you to everyone who participated in our bonfire last Friday night. It was a real blessing to worship with all of you and to discuss some of the issues facing you in your lives. In case you weren't there, here's what you missed.
We began our time with singing and discussing some of the common songs we sing in Oasis. There was a lot of praise to God for His mercy as we sang songs like Come Thou Fount and Thy Mercy. I'm very grateful for the reminders I received from you about those particular songs. After that we discussed what we should address in our discussion times for future bonfires. I was interested to see what topics would be helpful to get a Biblical perspective on so you could better share the gospel with your friends if they were interested in these issues. Here is the list of questions and topics you were interested in:
-Homosexuality
-Living with your significant other
-Pre-marital sex
-Having a pure mind
-Swearing
-Praying and reading
-Partying
-The truth of the Bible
-Lying
-Mormonism & Jehovah's Witnesses
-Holiday's
-Being tolerant and objective of other views
-What really saves us
-What about the "innocents"
These are all great topics of discussion. Each week we'll tackle one of them and see what the Bible has to say about it and how we can springboard from this topic to what really matters, namely, the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Our next bonfire will be on March 28 and we'll be discussing the topic of Homosexuality. I would encourage you to explore the links on this page to find articles about this topic to prepare yourself for the discussion coming up. Feel free to comment on the upcoming topic, ideas for new topics, suggestions for new songs, or requests for prayer. I'll see you all later. Keep sowing the seed for the Kingdom.
Thank you to everyone who participated in our bonfire last Friday night. It was a real blessing to worship with all of you and to discuss some of the issues facing you in your lives. In case you weren't there, here's what you missed.
We began our time with singing and discussing some of the common songs we sing in Oasis. There was a lot of praise to God for His mercy as we sang songs like Come Thou Fount and Thy Mercy. I'm very grateful for the reminders I received from you about those particular songs. After that we discussed what we should address in our discussion times for future bonfires. I was interested to see what topics would be helpful to get a Biblical perspective on so you could better share the gospel with your friends if they were interested in these issues. Here is the list of questions and topics you were interested in:
-Homosexuality
-Living with your significant other
-Pre-marital sex
-Having a pure mind
-Swearing
-Praying and reading
-Partying
-The truth of the Bible
-Lying
-Mormonism & Jehovah's Witnesses
-Holiday's
-Being tolerant and objective of other views
-What really saves us
-What about the "innocents"
These are all great topics of discussion. Each week we'll tackle one of them and see what the Bible has to say about it and how we can springboard from this topic to what really matters, namely, the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Our next bonfire will be on March 28 and we'll be discussing the topic of Homosexuality. I would encourage you to explore the links on this page to find articles about this topic to prepare yourself for the discussion coming up. Feel free to comment on the upcoming topic, ideas for new topics, suggestions for new songs, or requests for prayer. I'll see you all later. Keep sowing the seed for the Kingdom.
Thursday, February 28, 2008
A Meat Morning
Well, by popular demand, we'll be having a BBQ meat morning. To be more appropriate, we'll call it a steak and eggs breakfast. I'll provide the eggs if you all provide the meat. I'll have the grills ready. We'll be chewing the fat about Romans 4 as well as praying for Matt as he prepares to leave for Brazil next week, so read up and come ready to talk, pray, and eat. See you over in the downstairs kitchen at 9am sharp. Later...
Friday, February 22, 2008
Romans Review
Gentlemen of the round table, we're back on track. Due to the poor attendance at our last meeting, we'll still be discussing Romans 3:21-31 tomorrow morning at the house at 9am. I hope to see you all there. Hopefully you all have some good insights, even from camp this past weekend. Bring you bible's and commentaries and be ready for some hard discussions on the implications of this passage. See you there.
Gentlemen of the round table, we're back on track. Due to the poor attendance at our last meeting, we'll still be discussing Romans 3:21-31 tomorrow morning at the house at 9am. I hope to see you all there. Hopefully you all have some good insights, even from camp this past weekend. Bring you bible's and commentaries and be ready for some hard discussions on the implications of this passage. See you there.
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